Welcome back to The Product and Growth Show! In Episode 97, I sat down with Geoff Stead — former CPO of Babbel and MyTutor, and the author of Engines of Engagement — to explore the tough realities of building impactful edtech products in a space often dominated by flashy marketing and shallow retention.
This episode is packed with battle-tested lessons for product leaders, founders, and PMs working in education or any domain where growth outpaces product substance.
🔑 Main Takeaways
1. Why Edtech is So Damn Hard
Edtech is a high-impact domain but notoriously difficult to scale. Why? Because the best educational experiences (e.g., one-on-one coaching) don’t scale easily. Geoff explains how finding the “sweet spot” between meaningful impact and scalable delivery is the ultimate challenge — and opportunity.
2. Overpromising in Marketing is a Trap
When Geoff joined Babbel, the product couldn’t deliver on many of its boldest marketing promises. Over time, the team shifted to a more sustainable model by aligning marketing messages with actual learning outcomes, using “learning minutes” as the North Star metric. This led to better user retention and more loyal, paying customers.
3. Start Small, Bet Smart
Geoff shared how Babbel's podcast experiment — initially considered risky — became one of the biggest drivers of learning engagement and conversions. The secret? Empowering internal teams to run small, scrappy experiments without over-policing or over-selling them to leadership.
4. The Engagement Ladder: A Framework for Habit Formation
Successful edtech products don’t just teach; they change behavior. Geoff broke down his Engagement Ladder framework:
Day 1: Create micro-commitments (e.g., set reminders, complete one short task)
Week 1: Keep it light, frequent, and rewarding
Days 7–21: Increase challenge, mix content, introduce richer features
Post-Day 21: Re-engage users who dropped off; reinforce long-term habit
5. Advice for PMs in Growth-Led Orgs
If you’ve just joined a company that overpromises and underdelivers, Geoff’s advice is clear: find what works, amplify it, and start advocating. Build trust, create proof points, and shift internal focus from short-term hacks to long-term retention. Change the culture, not just the roadmap.
6. The Real Opportunity in AI Tutoring
Geoff cautions that most AI tutors today are little more than content parrots. What’s missing? Human-like engagement — memory, encouragement, and contextual nudging. The future of AI in education isn’t just smarter tech, but smarter pedagogy. Your moat won’t be GPT-4 — it’ll be your understanding of how people actually learn.
Share this post